Warning - They are Out There!

On the “SBC Voices” blog last night I ran across (or got ran over by) one of the most angry, aggressive, and belligerent, Anti-Calvinist I have come across in a long time. I post this not because this person said anything new, (I have heard all this before) but I post this because of my growing concern that such “hate” is being fostered in the SBC by those who hold conferences in order to “Address Calvinism in the SBC”.

This person posted under the name of Jeannie and left no means of contact (note, Jeannie is probably not this persons real name). This person came in late on the discussion (comments #44, #47) but wasted no time in making his/her belligerent views toward Calvinism known.


Comment #44

Jeannie 11.18.08 at 9:45 pm

The best thing a church can do is preach the Gospel of God, not the gospel
of John Calvin. Since they’re the opposite, the choice should be easy to the one who ‘believes’ the Word (God) is Sovereign (the truth).

It hard to believe that God was Sovereign to Mr. Calvin when in his opinion (judgment) of the Word at John 6:29, he says, “First, it is plain enough that Christ does not speak with strict accuracy, when he calls faith a work, just as Paul makes a comparison between the law of faith and the law of works,” (See Calvin’s opinion of the inspired Word of truth by Paul at Romans 3:27.)

Unlike Pilate, Mr. Calvin saw fault in the Word (Christ), and reformed (corrected) it/him to fit a faith of his own (that faith ‘is not’ a work to be accounted as merited by a man and rewarded). (See Abraham at Gal 3:6/James 2:23 and Heb 11:6)

Anyway, Calvinism isn’t called the “reformed” faith for
nothing. I for one refuse to have my faith (the Word of God) reformed
(corrected) by any man.

… (remainder omitted)

Comment #47

Jeannie 11.19.08 at 12:32 am

Do you believe Calvin practiced doctrines of Grace? If so, you haven’t studied his life. As the sovereign of Geneva, his grace was cruel. Whereas Christ died for the ungodly, Calvin burned them instead.

No Calvinist should complain that he’s not well received in other churches, be they Southern Baptist or whatever. WHAT are they doing in our churches anyway? We don’t want their doctrines and they don’t want ours. As far as our churches go, Calvinists need to mind their own business, like the other Christian cults do.

2 Pet 2:1-3 explains Calvinists in our churches….

Comments Anyone?

Voddie Baucham on The SBC and Calvinism

Voddie Baucham has posted an article titled “The SBC and Calvinism: A Personal Perspective”.

Voddie writes of his fall from grace with the powers that be within the SBC “I was still part of the gang. That is, until I came out of the closet. No... I’m not gay. It’s far worse than that. I’m a Calvinist! That’s right, I’m a fire-breathing, TULIP believing, five-point Calvinist. That, my friends, is the unpardonable sin in contemporary Southern Baptist life…”

If you still believe that there is not a war being waged by the powers that be in the SBC against the Calvinist of the convention then don’t take my word for it… go read Voddie’s article for yourself.

Grace Always,

Calvinism in the SBC- An Open Letter to Johnny Hunt and Jerry Vines

Todd Burus has written an Open Letter to Johnny Hunt and Jerry Vines concerning the wisdom of the John 3:16 Conference...

This letter was written on October 6, 2008 and what has Todd heard from the President of the SBC and Jerry Vines... "Crickets"

That in itself is very telling about these two men...

You can read Todd's letter here: Calvinism in the SBC- An Open Letter to Johnny Hunt and Jerry Vines

Also we have learned that both the Founders Ministries and Rc Sproul's Legonier Ministries requested booth space at this conference and were turned down. What does the President of the SBC have to say about this extremely un-courteous if not openly hostile behavior by either the staff of First Baptist Church Woodstock Georgia or the staff of Jerry Vines Ministries? Whichever staff was handling this event Johnny Hunt is responsible as it was held at his Church under his authority.

The more we learn about this John 3:16 Conference the more one must question the wisdom of all those Calvinist who voted for Dr. Hunt to become President of the SBC?

Grace Always

A Seminary Student’s Thoughts on the John 3:16 Conference

JohnMark has put up a short yet excellent summary of what the John 3:16 Conference held at Johnny Hunts Church in Woodstock Ga. was really all about…

I was going to write a post on this Conference, but for some reason I never got around to it… probably because I am soooooooo tired of all this “Hatred” of Calvinism coming from these Anti-Calvinist... Particularly Jerry Vines!

A quote form James White:

“If you can evangelize, call men to Christ, believe in common grace, etc., and still end up smeared by the "hyper" name, then clearly the debate has devolved down to a level beneath what is proper for believers.”

As I have commented on other blogs, I am pretty much through with these guys and I do not intend to ever again attend an event or conference where a single one of them are speaking, nor will I ever recommend SWBTS or NOBTS as a good choice for a young man or woman to attend seminary. And I plan to be around for a least another 40 or more years, so I hope to be advising the next generation of where to attend Seminary for many years after the above mentioned Anti-Calvinist are long gone home to be with the Lord.

Anyway, here is the link to the excellent summary of the John 3:16 Conference… you really should go read it.

A Seminary Student’s Thoughts on the John 3:16 Conference

Florida Baptist Giving in Freefall

http://www.floridabaptistwitness.com/9163.article

As bad as the 2.5 Million (or 7.8%) decline in total giving for the first six months of 2008 is; many fear that the financial outlook for the Florida Baptist Convention is going to get much worse in the months ahead. Knowing that the economic downturn has gotten much worse than it was during the first six months of 2008, I think one can safely assume that the Florida Baptist Convention is in for some very hard times ahead.

If giving stays at the current level the Florida Baptist Convention could see its total giving shrink by an astonishing 5-Million by the end of the year. However, considering the shape of the economy I think everyone is expecting the finial shortfall to be well over the 5-Million mark.

But is all the blame for this dramatic downturn in the churches support for the Florida Baptist Convention solely due to a poor economy? I think not!

Under the Fundamentalist leadership of John Sullivan the Florida Baptist Convention has offended and alienated scores of Baptist Churches in Florida who, while some have cut giving through the Florida Baptist Convention out altogether, many are now deciding that during hard times the Florida Baptist Convention is not a top priority for them.

When the chips are down you find out who your friends are and the Florida Baptist Convention and John Sullivan are finding out that they do not have as many friends in Florida as they believed, or even as they once had in years past.

While not solely responsible for this historic downturn in lack of support for the Florida Baptist Convention, the continued sport of “Calvinist Bashing” by high level executives of the Florida Baptist Convention and the personal hobby of “Narrowing the Parameters of Cooperation” by John Sullivan have, in my opinion, played a significant role.

Grace Always

So which 501(c)3 do you attend?

Bill Lollar, Missionary to the people of Wales, recently posted an article on his blog that got me to thinking about what the nature of a Biblical Church should be, and what activities a Biblical Church should be involved in. I think this article is worthy of your taking the time to read.

So which 501(c)3 do you attend?

Lords of the SBC

This post is an attempt to name the twenty (20) most influential people in the SBC. This is not a “mud slinging post”, and I am not saying that these individuals are bad people… I am just looking to name those in the SBC today, like John A. Broadus of the past, who wield the most influence in the Convention.

I will start the list with the obvious names of Dr. Paige Patterson and Dr. R. Albert Mohler, Jr.

Who do you believe should be on the list?

1. Dr. Paige Patterson, President, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary


2. Dr. R. Albert Mohler, Jr., President, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary


3. ___________________________________________________


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5. ___________________________________________________


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7. ___________________________________________________


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9. ___________________________________________________


10. ___________________________________________________


11. ___________________________________________________


12. ___________________________________________________


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20. ___________________________________________________
    
    

Prayer and the Doctrine of "Free Will".

(This post is taken from a conversation being held over on Wade Burleson's Blog)

-------------------

Prayer is simply incompatible with the doctrine of “free will”.

Someone (I cannot remember who) once said; “We are all Calvinist on our knees.” If I am praying for God to save my child, I am asking God to violate his “free will”. It cannot be otherwise.

If I truly believe in the doctrine of “free will” then what exactly am I asking God to do for my child? Anything God does that will influence my child in the slightest way will be a violation of his “free will”. Anything God does that will influence the will of my child that he does not do for all children (no matter how small the influence) is an act of “Election”.

However, if I start with the understanding that the will is not free, but that the will of my unregenerate child is in bondage (a slave to sin) then that changes everything. Then my prayer to God for my child is that God will “free” the will of my child; so that my child may indeed, of his now “freed” will, choose to embrace the grace of God.

The best treatment of this subject is not Luther in ‘The bondage of the will’ but instead John Calvin’s ‘The Bondage and Liberation of the Will’, subtitled “A Defense of the Orthodox Doctrine of Human Choice against Pighius” published by Baker Academic. Notice that subtitle! Calvin is defending the doctrine of “Human Choice”.

If you do not have this book and you are an honest seeker of truth then I highly recommend you purchase it and read it with Bible and pen in hand. You can pruchase it from monergismbooks.com at the following link.

http://www.monergismbooks.com/Bondage-and-Liberation-of-the-Will-p-16201.html

Grace Always,

Greg

Alcohol and the Authority of the Word

I recently received an email from a very articulate young Baptist Pastor who has a BA from Boyce College, an MDiv from The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, and is currently working on a Phd in OT at Southern. (I am withholding his name because this post is not about this young man; this post is about the honest questions he asked.)

Here is the email that I received:

Greg,

I want you to know that I greatly appreciate your interest and interaction with our ________ blog. However, there is something that concerns me and I wanted to point it out to you.

All of your replies to my recollection involve one common theme, alcohol. Even posts that seem to have nothing to do with alcohol elicit responses from you about alcohol. I am curious as to why you are so concerned about this one issue that it consumes all of your posts? This almost seems to be a first tier issue for you.

I want to be clear that I don't believe the Bible supports a position that says that every drink of alcohol in every setting at any time is a sin. We might disagree on the wisdom of alcohol consumption in some cultures or settings but certainly the Bible doesn't condemn every sip of alcohol that one might take. With that said I'm still curious why this so big for you? Why are you so concerned to change the convention's view of alcohol? Why are you more concerned with that
than cooperation around missions, church planting and ecclesiology, training of ministers, etc?

Please help me to understand.

In Christ,

Xxx Xxxx


Greg Alford Replies:

Xxx,

Thanks for the email... I have enjoyed reading your articles on xxxxxxxxx blog lately.

What motivates the words and actions of others is indeed sometimes very hard to understand, so I will try and answer your question with as much honestly and clarity as I can…

I do not bring up the issue of alcohol in many of my comments because I often partake of alcoholic drinks. Quite the opposite is true… On rare occasions I will have a glass of wine with an evening meal, at the Christmas gathering with my family, or at a wedding.

Brother Xxx, with humility of spirit and abiding love for all things Southern Baptist… I often bring up this issue in the Southern Baptist Convention and the Florida Baptist Convention because I am greatly burdened to speak out.

God alone is qualified to give unto man the standard by which he should live and be judged. He has done this by means of his Holy Word, which alone is Sufficient for such a great task as this.

“The Holy Bible was written by men divinely inspired and is God's revelation of Himself to man. It is a perfect treasure of divine instruction. It has God for its author, salvation for its end, and truth, without any mixture of error, for its matter. Therefore, all Scripture is totally true and trustworthy. It reveals the principles by which God judges us, and therefore is, and will remain to the end of the world, the true center of Christian union, and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and religious opinions should be tried. All Scripture is a testimony to Christ, who is Himself the focus of divine revelation.” – (Article I. BFM2000)

Now, the Southern Baptist Convention and the Florida Baptist Convention have set themselves up as the givers of the Law, and have condemned both God and Christ for their conduct…

Just a few points concerning wine:

• It was commanded of God to be given as an offering in the O.T.
• It is said in the O.T. to make glad both the heart of man and God.
• Jesus turned water into wine, (not Welch’s).
• Jesus and every single one of his disciples drank wine at the Last Supper.
• It is one of the two elements of communion (Is it proper to make substitutes for the Biblical pattern of any ordinance? Remember we Baptist will accept no substitutes for the Biblical patter of the ordinance of Baptism.)
• Jesus told his disciples that he would partake of wine with them in Heaven.

Xxx, I hope you can see my heart and great concern for my Southern Baptist Convention in this matter… If the Word of God is not “the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and religious opinions should be tried” then what is or “who” is? This is not a matter of opinion; it is nothing less than a matter of setting ourselves up as the supreme standard by which all human (and God’s) conduct should be tried… And that my friend is a very grievous sin indeed.

Blessings,
Greg Alford


Next Reply from Pastor Xxx:


Greg,

I still am perplexed by your response. You spent most of your email defending a position that I already conceded was biblically defensible. My question is why is this such a huge issue for you. You think that someone who takes a teetotaler position is being anti-biblical or not trusting in the sufficiency of Scripture? Is this your concern? There are a lot of other issues that you could raise that bring into doubt our convention’s practical stance on the sufficiency of scripture, why this one and why so fervent? I never meant to imply with my email that you love alcohol or drink it a lot personally. It was just a question as to why you talk about it so often. I understand that the Bible doesn’t condemn all drinks of alcohol and has some good things to say about alcohol. Again, I stated that in the last email. I understand that your concern is that someone or something (i.e. SBC) is bypassing the Bible as the supreme standard with the various resolutions on alcohol. However, I do want to state that the issue might not be black and white. The Bible does have some clear warnings that it gives concerning alcohol and not just warnings about drunkenness (Proverbs for example). Are raising principles of being concerned for not seeing weaker brothers stumble from 1 Corinthians 8 and Romans 14 completely inadmissible here in your opinion? Again, I don’t want to get into an argument over alcohol, b/c as I said I don’t think a teetotaler position is mandated by the Scripture. I guess my question is why are you so “burdened” by this particular issue when there are others that could be brought up? What do you think it is about this particular issue that so burdens you?

Again, I appreciate you responding to my email. I am simply curious.

Xxx Xxxx


Greg Alford Replies:

Xxx,

Let me try again,

I do not think that someone who makes the personal decision to be a teetotaler is being anti-biblical or not trusting in the sufficiency of Scriptures at all. That is a personal choice and can be made for many valid reasons.

However, let me clearly say that I do think that it greatly questions the authority of Scriptures for anyone to insists (as John Sullivan has done in the Florida Baptist Convention) that all those who do not hold to the teetotaler position are unfit for service. To me the actions of John Sullivan and the Florida Baptist Convention are just as great an attack upon the Scriptures as any liberal has dared make in my lifetime.

One’s position on alcohol has become in some state conventions an extra-biblical litmus test used to exclude otherwise solid conservative Baptist from cooperation and service. And there is an ongoing effort to make this a policy throughout the SBC so that no one who does not hold a teetotaler position on alcohol can serve in any position in the convention at all………… That is why this is such a huge issue for me.

It really comes down to one simple question…

“Is the Bible our final authority or not?”

Grace Always,


Next Reply from Pastor Xxx:


Greg,


I will think thru your response and I do sense this is a big issue for you because you think convention leaders are adding to the Bible.


However, Greg it is a gross overstatement to equate John Sullivan's policy or any state/national convention's policy on alcohol with liberals who have denied the resurrection, condoned homosexuality, etc. That is going way too far!


Xxx


Greg Alford Replies:


Xxx,

Are you sure you are qualified to make the decision of just what is an acceptable denial of Biblical teaching and what is not?

For that matter, who among us "mortal men" is qualified to say one departure form what the Bible teaches is far worse than another? Who decides Xxx? Me? You? Who then?

No... there are no small departures from what the Bible teaches...

Blessings,


Next Reply from Pastor Xxx:



Greg,

Yet you are making the decision to view all 'departures' the same. Who gave you that office? Honestly, I find it unfathomable that you would equate a position of not being in leadership because you think it is ok to drink alcohol with a denial of the resurrection. One of those departures is FAR worse. Denial of resurrection means a person is not a believer at all!

I appreciate you taking time to respond to each of my questions but at this point I will not continue the conversation further.

Xxx


Greg Alford Replies:


Xxx,

Communicating by way of email is sometimes very difficult... It was not my intent to offend you in any way during this discussion... My questions in the last email were designed to stir you to think seriously about the issue of the authority of God's Word in the Southern Baptist Convention. If I have indeed offended you I do apologize and hope that we end our discussion as Brothers.


Blessings,


Next Reply from Pastor Xxx:


Greg,

You did not offend me and certainly we will always conclude discussions ad brothers. All I meant by my final email was that we are absolutely called to make decisions about which departures of scripture are most heinous because some rise to the level of heresy and others only misinterpretation, misapplication, etc. Theological triage is important for all kinds of reasons having to do with levels of cooperation and so forth. I think Paul's words in Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8 imply that there might be issues of application we disagree on like alcohol and others that shouldn't matter as much, and yet 1 Corinthians 15 there are other issues like the resurrection that are life and death. I was not offended. I simply and vehemently disagree with you on comparing a stance on alcohol with a stance on the resurrection.

Also, we have had some kind exchanges but the truth is we are not getting anywhere with them. You believe one thing and I believe the other. I simply started the email exchange because I wanted to try and understand why this was hill to die on for you. I think I understand why and we will simply have to disagree that one's stance on alcohol reveals their confidence in scripture's sufficiency.

In terms of how to deal with the alcohol issue itself my dad is releasing a blog that I would encourage you to read. His view will be close to mine. At this point I just don't want to talk about alcohol anymore.

I do pray God's blessing on you, your family and your ministry. Thank you for taking the time to interact with me. I'm sure you're busy.

In Christ,

Xxx Xxxx


Greg Alford Replies:


Xxx,

I would agree that some departures from Scripture are more heinous than others, however I would add that no departure from Scripture is acceptable...

You have made the comment several times now that I have made a big deal out of the alcohol issue... indeed I have commented on it several times, and will likely continue to do so, but I must strongly disagree with this statement. It is not I but John Sullivan and the Florida Baptist Convention that has made a big deal out of alcohol by making it of first tier importance... and it is they who have decided to dis-fellwoship anyone who does not agree with them concerning alcohol. Actually I can cooperate with those who believe it is always wrong to drink alcohol and those who do not see it as a sin.

You said you started this conversation in order to try and understand my opinion in this matter... now I would like to understand yours. Do you agree with the actions of John Sullivan and the Florida Baptist Convention in making alcohol a first tier issue?

Grace Always


Next Reply from Pastor Xxx:


Greg,

This will probably sound like a cop out but honestly I don't know the situation well enough to have an opinion either way. Sorry.

I have supported resolutions on alcohol passed on the convention floor but I cannot speak to this specific issue.

Xxx


The conversation ended with the last reply from this young pastor who has a BA from Boyce College, an MDiv from The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, and is currently working on a Phd in OT at Southern.

I really would like to know how others view this topic (Alcohol and the Authority of the Word). Anyone have any thoughts on this exchange?

Grace Always,
Greg

Strong Coffee - No Longer Welcome in the SBC?

Ken Coffee has written a short, yet powerful, article that askd the question:

“DOES THE SBC STILL WANT ME?”

I do not know Ken Strong, but nevertheless, you should read this article… below is my response that I posted to Kens site.

-----------------------------------------

Brother Ken,

These are some pretty hard words coming from a professed Conservative Southern Baptist:

There is a lot of discussion on other blogs about whether or not the conservative resurgence was worth it in the Southern Baptist Convention. Put me on the side of those who think it was not.

Many of us feel that we in the SBC are morphing into a group of intolerant religious bigots… We are becoming more “Cambellite” than Baptist.

This resurgence everyone in SBC leadership is so proud of has become a huge, bigoted conglomeration that shows no tolerance of anyone who has a different point of view.

My conservative credentials will match up with anyone out there, but these credentials stop at drinking the Kool-Aid and giving up my right to think for myself.

I would love to continue to call myself a Southern Baptist… The big question in my mind is, do Southern Baptist still want me? Frankly, I am not sure I am welcome in the SBC any more.

As I said above, these are some pretty hard words brother and I hope you are quite prepared to defend them… But not to me, I agree with “almost” everything you have said (being a non Kool-Aid drinker I reserve the right to not fully agree with anyone except our Lord) :-)

I have been warning my fellow Conservative Southern Baptist for years of the dangerous influence of the leaven of the “Landmark” (Cambellite) fringe of the SBC. The Cambellites (in small numbers) have always been there among the ranks of the Conservative Resurgence… Smiling… Drinking the Kool-Aid… and Waiting. However when the Conservative Resurgence (eager to boost their numbers) embraced Liberty (Cambellite) University… their time had come.

O, they do not call themselves “Cambellites” anymore… that would not be wise in a Convention that was once split by the Cambellites… No they march under the banner of “The Baptist Identity Movement” today, and they set on almost every Trustee Board in the SBC. The Cambellite TAKEOVER of the IMB should be a wakeup call to all Southern Baptist… CR no longer stands for the Conservative Resurgence, but instead CR stands for the Cambellite Resurgence.

The Takeover of the IMB is only the first trophy of the Cambellite Resurgence… more will follow! The influence of Liberty University is growing throughout the SBC. (What a horribly deceptive name is “Liberty” for a Cambellite University) I now receive a free copy of their monthly magazine, and I could not help but notice that the Leadership of Liberty University is being pushed forward as guest speakers at small Baptist Colleges and State Conferences throughout the SBC. I must assume this is a planned strategy to increase their exposure to all Southern Baptist pastors.

Brother Ken, this is far more than I intended to say… thanks for letting me speak out. If more Conservative Southern Baptist do not stand up and speak out, and soon, more and more of us will find that we are no longer welcome in the SBC.

Grace Always