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Friday, July 18, 2008

Strong Coffee - No Longer Welcome in the SBC?

Ken Coffee has written a short, yet powerful, article that askd the question:

I do not know Ken Strong, but nevertheless, you should read this article… below is my response that I posted to Kens site.


Brother Ken,

These are some pretty hard words coming from a professed Conservative Southern Baptist:

There is a lot of discussion on other blogs about whether or not the conservative resurgence was worth it in the Southern Baptist Convention. Put me on the side of those who think it was not.

Many of us feel that we in the SBC are morphing into a group of intolerant religious bigots… We are becoming more “Cambellite” than Baptist.

This resurgence everyone in SBC leadership is so proud of has become a huge, bigoted conglomeration that shows no tolerance of anyone who has a different point of view.

My conservative credentials will match up with anyone out there, but these credentials stop at drinking the Kool-Aid and giving up my right to think for myself.

I would love to continue to call myself a Southern Baptist… The big question in my mind is, do Southern Baptist still want me? Frankly, I am not sure I am welcome in the SBC any more.

As I said above, these are some pretty hard words brother and I hope you are quite prepared to defend them… But not to me, I agree with “almost” everything you have said (being a non Kool-Aid drinker I reserve the right to not fully agree with anyone except our Lord) :-)

I have been warning my fellow Conservative Southern Baptist for years of the dangerous influence of the leaven of the “Landmark” (Cambellite) fringe of the SBC. The Cambellites (in small numbers) have always been there among the ranks of the Conservative Resurgence… Smiling… Drinking the Kool-Aid… and Waiting. However when the Conservative Resurgence (eager to boost their numbers) embraced Liberty (Cambellite) University… their time had come.

O, they do not call themselves “Cambellites” anymore… that would not be wise in a Convention that was once split by the Cambellites… No they march under the banner of “The Baptist Identity Movement” today, and they set on almost every Trustee Board in the SBC. The Cambellite TAKEOVER of the IMB should be a wakeup call to all Southern Baptist… CR no longer stands for the Conservative Resurgence, but instead CR stands for the Cambellite Resurgence.

The Takeover of the IMB is only the first trophy of the Cambellite Resurgence… more will follow! The influence of Liberty University is growing throughout the SBC. (What a horribly deceptive name is “Liberty” for a Cambellite University) I now receive a free copy of their monthly magazine, and I could not help but notice that the Leadership of Liberty University is being pushed forward as guest speakers at small Baptist Colleges and State Conferences throughout the SBC. I must assume this is a planned strategy to increase their exposure to all Southern Baptist pastors.

Brother Ken, this is far more than I intended to say… thanks for letting me speak out. If more Conservative Southern Baptist do not stand up and speak out, and soon, more and more of us will find that we are no longer welcome in the SBC.

Grace Always


Les Puryear said...


You are absolutely correct in noting the Landmark influence on the IMB board and elsewhere. It is growing from a fringe movement to something bigger. We must speak out against this growing influence in SBC life.


G. Alford said...


I am not just trying to stir things up when I say these things... This trend toward “Cambell-ism” is something that should truly be a deep concern for all who love and have deep roots in the SBC.

And the concerted efforts of the “Cambellite” minority in the convention to gain access to positions on SBC Trustee Boards for their fellow “Cambellites” should be carefully looked into... I believe that most Southern Baptist would be shocked to learn how well positioned these folks are.

I for one would like to know the names, church they are members of, and college/seminary they hail from of every single Board member, and employee in the Convention. As a Southern Baptist I should be entitled to this information... (I won't hold my breath, but I sure would like to see it!)

We had better start paying attention...

Alyce Faulkner said...

Thanks for directing me to this blog.
I think he not alone in his thinking.
Frankly, I've been so busy I haven't kept up on the goings on in the blog world.
What I really believe is happening (and my baptist pastor friends don't agree)-I think God is tearing denominational walls down.
The only ones left, seeming to be holding them up are the one's shouting, "This is my wall', it's been my wall for centuries and I don't want anyone who speaks in tongues, works with other people in other bodies, or hasn't been baptized in one of our churches to help me hold it thank you very much."
All the while the wall is falling.
OK, I'll stop preaching now,
Im not suppose to anyway :)
Blessings from Little Rock

G. Alford said...


I agree… denominational wall are getting bent, blurred, and just outright ignored by a new generation of believers whose allegiance is first and foremost to the Word of God. And this is freaking the “Denominational Kool-Aid Drinkers” out of their minds.

I know this is pure heresy to those Landmark Baptist out their, but I think most of these “Denominational Kool-Aid Drinkers” (I just love saying that) need to be reminded that the Kingdom of God is not limited to any one denomination.

Grace Always,

Paul W. Foltz DD said...

There's no such thing as a Baptist Bride, taught by the Landmark Baptists across this land. Also they teach the church started with John The Baptist. But the Bible says that The Law and PROPHETS WERE UNTIL JOHN, and since then the kingdom of God is preached unto you.

Jon L. Estes said...

I would say the pre-1979 leadership were working to identify baptists in a way that I would not be comfortable with. They did it subtly and may have succeeded if some professors had not taken a stand on some very radical beliefs and others had, within the system not stood against them.

Today we have a different leadership who is working to identify baptists but not so subtle.

The only way, except by divine intervention, is for the local church to rise up and say, "no more".

The Garner motion was a first step but it has been mocked and ignored. Saying the local church and her members have no voice, even when in majority of vote.

If pickles have souls...


G. Alford said...


I agree 100%


I would say the pre-1979 leadership were working to identify baptists in a way that I would not be comfortable with.

Today we have a different leadership who is working to identify baptists but not so subtle.

I agree with both of these statements!

The Garner motion proved that working through the established processes to bring about change, or needed restraint on abuses of power, in the SBC does not work... THE CONVENTION SYSTEM DOES NOT WORK!

Those currently in positions of power in the SBC are “entrenched” and no one (except God) can do anything to move them… Therefore I say “Cut the money off”… and for those who say this will hurt missions, I say they have already been hurt by the actions of the current leadership.

“If pickles have souls...” ???

Grace Always,

Jon L. Estes said...

I am assuming that my closing remarks about pickles did not ring a bell due to the ???.

I was speaking of the comment from Adrian Rogers about if the convention says professors at our schools are to teach pickles have souls, thenthe professors are to teach pickles have souls.

Basically, he was demonstrating that the voice and direction of the convention comes from the messengers on floor of the convention, not anywhere else.

If the future motions are treated like the Garner motion, then the convention is no longer a needed source. It becomes obvious that our dollars are the only thing, tangibly we have left to speak with.

G. Alford said...


Thanks for the reminder... I did remember someone saying something about pickles having souls, but I did not remember who or when. And yes, sadly is has become clear that what we do with “OUR” Missions dollars is the only voice we now have.

Grace Always,

Paul W. Foltz DD said...