“Old, Angry, and Arminian” accurately describes how many Calvinist in the SBC view those who gathered at the now infamous John 3:16 Conference, sponsored by Jerry Vines Ministries and hosted by the President of the SBC, at First Baptist Church Woodstock Georgia. “Old, Angry, and Arminian” may seem like a provocative title, however seeing that the John 3:16 conference was itself provocative toward the Calvinist of the SBC, I am of the opinion that what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Yes, yes, I know these men do not claim to be Arminian; however “Old, Angry, and Pelagian” just does not have the same ring to it as “Old, Angry, and Arminian”. :-)Dr. Allen, speaking at this conference is quoted as saying “Should the Southern Baptist Convention move toward 5-point Calvinism, such a move would be away from, and not toward, the gospel.” This statement was received, by the ‘cool-aid-drinkers’ who paid good money to hear this kind of diatribe, with a standing ovation. A standing ovation… let that sink in. These guys are; passionate, aggressive, and yes hyper anti-Calvinist. The new generation of Calvinist in the SBC has been described as “Young, Restless, and Reformed”. Those gathered at this conference came off as “Old, Angry, and Arminian (Anti-Reformed), and I’m of the opinion that their ongoing war against Calvinism will not end well for the SBC.
Let me be very clear in saying that Dr. Allen is “Dead Wrong” in his analysis of what a return to 5-point Calvinism would mean for the SBC. In truth, should the Southern Baptist Convention move away from 5-point Calvinism, as Dr. Allen suggest, such a move would be away from, and not toward, the Gospel at all. Actually the SBC moved away from 5-point Calvinism at the turn of the 19th century and embraced a; Semi-Pelagian, Decisional Regeneration, False Gospel. And today in the SBC we have children being baptized in fire trucks with all the lights flashing and the bells ringing, and children at VBS putting their pictures in the basket marked “Heaven” instead of the burning barrel marked “Hell” and then told they are now saved. No, Dr. Allen we have seen what a move away for 5-point Calvinism produces and we want nothing to do with it.
I am in full allegiance with Spurgeon when he says“Calvinism is the Gospel!” And when you take any one of the 5-points away you diminish the Gospel and in truth you have no Gospel at all… what you have is Semi-Pelagianism or full blown Pelagianism, both of which have been condemned as preversions of the Gospel of Jesus Christ (heresy).
More than a few bloggers have posted reviews of this conference; for their views see: (Andrew Lindsey, John Mark, Timmy Brister, and Justin Taylor).
Grace Alwasys,
10 comments:
I must say, with your arrogant spirit and attitude, I'd hate to be a member of your church. I'm sure, based on your writing here and on other blogs, that you come across to your church just as arrogant and probably look down on them because they aren't as smart (in your mind) as you.
These "old" guys have forgotten more theology than you know.
Brave Anon…
Your personal attack on me will in no way diminish the truth of what I have repeatedly posted, both here and on other blogs
If you had attacked anyone else on my Blog the way you just attacked me I would have deleted your comment… but, leaving it up just proves to everyone the kind of “bitter” heart, and “hostile” mindset, which embodies the Anti-Calvinist movement in the SBC.
Feel free to strongly disagree with me on any issue you wish, but please do not come here to spew your anger… any future personal attacks will be deleted without comment.
Stephen Newell post the follwoing comment over on Tom Ascol's Blog:
I'm getting real tired of constantly having to qualify my non-Calvinism due to the rhetoric of anti-Calvinists.
Finally, I'm sick that men I ought to be able to respect and admire continually put their feet in their mouths, obfuscate, and outright lie about Calvinism, Calvinists, and their own "anti-Calvinism."
For "non-Calvinists" like me, the future of the Southern Baptist Convention does not lay with these misguided and theologically miserable men, but in those who actually speak the truth in love and seek unity in Christ. The leadership of Calvinists such as Pastor Tom and non-Calvinists such as Danny Akin is much more desirable than the detestable rhetoric coming from the recognizable "old guard."
I guess Stephen juat has an arrogant spirit also...
Greg,
I disagree with Anonymous.I believe that our sovereign Lord has opened your eyes to "more"theology than these "old"guys want to see.
Keep up the good work and consider not posting any comments by men who are ashamed of their name.
I am not anonymous.
William F.(Bill Poore)wmpoore@comporium.net
Shane,
Can you give me the quotes where any Calvinist in the SBC are guilty of saying that a move toward what Johnny Hunt teaches in his church would be a move away from the gospel?
No?
The clear difference between the Founders movement and the Anti-Calvinism in the convention is that the Founders go to great lengths to teach what they believe… while the Anti-Calvinist (the John 3:16 conference guys) spend their time, not explaining what they believe, but attacking what the Calvinist believe.
Shane if you truly cannot see the difference between the two of these then I cannot help you understand my disgust with these guys.
You ask “Is there room enough for both under the SBC umbrella?” — Are you kidding me? You do know that it is the Anti-Calvinist that are trying to address/correct/purge the SBC of the errors of Calvinism right? And that it was the Calvinist who actually hosted the “Building Bridges Conference” right?
Shane I really don’t mind the non-Calvinist in the SBC promoting their viewpoints if they would do so in a positive manner… I might even attend their conferences if they did. But these guys are not non-Calvinist, they are Anti-Calvinist and they have no intention of living peaceably with the Calvinist in the SBC.
Grace Always,
************
This is a quote from you to me on the SBCLife blog. You again, are that Southern Baptist who says that a move toward their teaching is a move away from the gospel. You amaze me at you two-faced method of discussion. I write without hesitation: two-faced. On SBCLife, you decry the John 3:16 Conference because they are divisive and because they got a STANDING OVATION from that statement you quoted. On your site you say exactly what you challenged me to find:
YOU are the SBCer who says the opposite.
Sincerely,
Shane Tucker
Brother Shane,
With all due respect… you need to pause and consider your words before you post them.
I reread my comment on SBCLife (that you copied here) 3-Times and I am yet to find anything remotely related to this post… In the comment on SBCLife I am calling for the non-Calvinist in the SBC to stop attacking Calvinism and start promoting their doctrines/viewpoints in a positive manner. If they would simply start teaching and promoting their doctrines and stop trying to tear down Calvinism then there would be no division at all in the SBC. But I will tell you this; if they keep it up… the days of the Calvinist giving theses guys a free pass on their doctrines are fast coming to an end.
Because I turn Dr. Allens comment around in an effort to defend the Gospel against the unhelpful words of Dr. Allen does not make me “Two-Faced” at all… but thank you for the complement “count it all joy when…” What it does do however is draw attention to the dangerous actions of sowing the seeds of division within the SBC that these Anti-Calvinist are guilty of!
But Shane, I will ask you this… seeing that those who put on this John 3:16 Conference promised not to bash Calvinism and then proceeded to do so with abandon; have you written to each of them (Jerry Vines especially) to call them “Two Faced” as well? I am glad to see that you are such a man of integrity that you would never be guilty of being “Two Faced” yourself.
Yes, I do not hesitate to take on the hostility and misrepresentations by those who are “Anti-Calvinist” in the SBC. And yes, I will continue to call attention to their aggressive and divisive conduct in the convention. But just because I stand up to those who are causing division in the SBC does not make me guilty of the division they are seeking to bring to the convention.
Grace Always,
Bill,
Thanks for the encouragement brother…
I have never understood why any Christian not on the mission field (and that for security reasons) would not own up to their own words.
Grace Always,
Dear Brothers: Why worry abut these folks putting their feet in their mouths. That is the inherent right of every Baptist preacher who ever lived, even John did when he wound up in prison just before he lost his head. Haven't we all said things we later regretted? Have you all considered that just mabe the other folks are getting nervous cause this Sovereign Grace stuff just might mean there is another Great Awakening on the way, mabe the greatest of them all? 36 yrs go, I preached a sermon on the subject, "A Third Great Awakening" to the pastors prayer meeting of the Sandy Creek Baptist Assn. It was at that time that I began to pray for one. Then very few were publicly advocating Sovereign Grace. Now there are many more and the doctrines of grace have become issues/subjects for discussion. I suggest that we make each point into an invitation for people to be saved. Even Arminians have a hard time being angry, when people start to get saved under the ministry of those who believe as we do. And by the way if a hyper-calvinist (technically, a supralapsarian could preach a revival at rural church in Goergia in the late 40s/early 50s and have 100 converts, then we can rethink and redo our approach. There is nothing like bold confidence (based upon reality) to win the day. That same preacher also founded the American Race Track Chaplaincy. See the listing for Dr. Ernest R. Campbell, Who's Who in Religion.2nd edn. Chicago: Marquis Pubs., 1977. I feel truly humbled that I should be listed in the same volume with that man. No wonder Dr. R. G. Lee thought so much of Dr. Campbell that he put it in his will that Dr. Campbell must preach his funeral. None of the others were in the will although they were good men. Let us pray and labor for the Third Great Awakening, and one of these days God will answer when He thinks best. I suggest praise and good humor is the best way to greet those who take issue with us. No one said it would be easy. But I would leave you with the example of Greater Love diplayed by an African American in Vietnam. A former Marine, a white fellow I knew said in civil rights days that he didn't feel about Blacks as others did. He said,"My buddy in the Marines was a Black man. During a battle one evening he threw himself between m and the incoming fire. I held that man in my arms and cried like a baby as he died." Brothers, that Arminian, Pelagian, whatever you want to call him, can be in God's hands a crooked stick with which He can strike a straight blow. Mr. Edwards took George Whitefield to task over that issue. That is why Whitefield later turned to help Harvard. Edwards had some interesting references to Judas. Please, brethren, do your homework. See how liberal a truly believing ministry can be.
Dr. Willingham,
Thank you for you words of encouragement, I find them full of wisdom and grace.
Unlike the “Straw Men” that these Anti-Calvinist are guilty of building in order to burn them down, to the thundering applause of their audience, the New-Generation of Calvinist that I know are Passionate Soul Winners, Church Planters, and Missionaries.
I agree; this is what they are “most” nervous about…
Perhaps “The Third Great Awakening” has begun?
Grace Always,
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