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Saturday, November 29, 2008

More on the Anti-Calvinism in the SBC

Follow this link to read:
More on the Anti-Calvinism in the SBC

Just a reminder to Jerry Vines, Johnny Hunt, SWBTS, NOBTS, and all Southern Baptist… Our Non-Baptist Evangelical Christian Brothers are watching and listening to what our Seminary Professors and Denomination Leaders are saying.

Are you embarrassed yet? I Am!

Someone needs to tell these guys to STOP this war on Calvinism before serious and lasting damage is done to the SBC and the Evangelical Community as a whole.

Grace Always,

13 comments:

Larry said...

Greg - you picked up on a comment I made after Bridges and I said I would never become a Baptist, what is happening now is the reason. I am deeply saddened for the Church the true Church. But we know that God directs "all" - perhaps this will separate the truth from false teaching and the sooner this is accepted the better the Church will be. 1 & 2 Peter warn us about false teaching plus other Scripture. Larry

Greg Alford said...

Larry,

I really hate it that you are never going to become a "True Christian" (According to the Landmark Baptist Professor at SWBTS, Dr. Malcolm Yarnell). :-)

I fear you may be correct in your assessment that this might lead to a separation; for I do not know how much longer the SBC can endure the aggressive and hostile actions of these Anti-Calvinist without a major split in the convention.

The sides have been chosen, the battle lines have been drawn, certain territory has been laid claim to by each side… and now the John 3:16 guys have fired the first shots. We now wait to see if it will lead to all out war in the SBC, or if the Calvinist of the Convention will once again tend to our wounds, seek peace with those who hate us, and attempt to build more bridges than they can burn.

Grace Always,

Larry said...

Greg - let us look to the early Church when God purified them - early chapters of Acts. I know they still had problems but they were devoted to "prayer" and the study of the word and to each other. Jesus said they "will know us by our love for each other.

Greg Alford said...

Larry,

"I know they still had problems but they were devoted to "prayer" and the study of the word and to each other."

Thanks for this reminder brother!

Grace Always,

Anonymous said...

The Fight going on within the Convention is the harbinger of the split that will soon come.

Having rejected The Doctrines of Grace, it is in apostasy. And the only cure for Apostasy is Judgment.

Dr. Paul W.Foltz

stevenruff said...

Bro Greg,

I have read and listened to a great deal lately on this renewed discussion on Calvinism in the SBC. It seems that most every blogger and state newspaper (including our own)is reporting differing views. There is one point that I believe is being lost in this entire discussion. Everyone is being lumped into two categories. If you listen to everyone who is talking from the blogworld to the seminaries to the John 3:16 conference - you are either a Calvinist or an anti-Calvinist.

I would take exception to the term anti-Calvinist. To be "anti" anything is to be against or not in favor of something. I myself am not a Calvinist. I am not anti-Calvinist. I choose not to embrace Calvinist theology. I believe that for someone to say just because you don't believe in or embrace Calvinism you are anti-Calvinist, is inaccurate.

It seems in all of this discussion there has been a call for lines to be drawn in the sand coming from those in favor of Calvinism. From my perspective, I have heard alot about how angry "anti-Calvinists" are, but Calvinists appear to be just as angry. You had made a comment in a previous post that quoted Spurgeon as saying Calvinism is the true gospel. Problems occur when the biblical gospel is confused with a man's system of theology.

Steven

Anonymous said...

Brother Greg,

I would first like to say that I agree with you theologically, and most of your opinions expressed on your blog. However, I have come to believe that the best way to counter the anit-calvinist is to simply remain faithful to our calling within our local autonomous churches. Prove them wrong about our lack of evangelistic zeal, prove them wrong about our lack of love for the unregenerate sinner. We should let our light so shine that our father in heaven is glorified.

The truth is that the shallow, man-centered, pragmatic gospel that they are preaching will ultimately led more and more of the next generation away from their positions. People are sick and tired of being fead milk, when they are ready for meat. Let them spew their rhetoric, while we remain faithful to teaching and feeding our sheep. Like someone else has said, "Sheep like sheep food, but goats will eat anything!!"

Ultimately the tide has already turned. The old gaurd is increasingly becoming irrelevant and they know it. I refuse to be baited into a game that has already been won. I have followed the debate and often been seriously upset by their remarks, but have decided I don't need their affirmation, support, or blessings. I am just going to put my nose to grind and be faithful to what the Lord has called me to do.

Greg Alford said...

Steven,

I don’t think anyone is saying that “just because you don't believe in or embrace Calvinism you are anti-Calvinist” (I know I am not). I have some very close friends in the ministry that are Non-Calvinist and I do not consider them Anti-Calvinist at all.

The Anti-Calvinist, you correctly surmise, are those in the convention who are “aggressively” against Calvinism and are seeking to “address” (correct the error of) Calvinism in the SBC. Most notable of these in the SBC is Jerry Vines who appears to think himself on a mission from “Gawd” to stamp out Calvinism in the Southern Baptist Convention.

Brother Steven, those who are seeking to reverse the growing influence of Calvinism in the SBC by consistently attacking the Doctrines of Grace, and using their influence in the convention to keep Calvinist from serving in the convention, are rightly called Anti-Calvinist. If you are not doing these things then you are not an Anti-Calvinist.

Are Calvinist in the SBC Angry? I would say, for the most part, No. Are we upset with all the hostility that is being flung at us by the Anti-Calvinist (the vast majority of which is never reported on)? I would say Yes. The Calvinist in the SBC can be compared to the Army Engineers whose task it is to Build Bridges while under fire… Only what is upsetting to so many of us is that the enemy is not the one lobbing mortars at us, it is our own fellow Baptists that are doing so.

Steven, you write “You had made a comment in a previous post that quoted Spurgeon as saying Calvinism is the true gospel.”

Steven, just like Spurgeon, if I did not believe that the doctrines that have come to be known as Calvinism were both Biblical and essential to a proper understanding of the Gospel then I would not be a Calvinist.

Again you write “Problems occur when the biblical gospel is confused with a man's system of theology.”

Steven, You cannot have a Biblical Gospel with Biblical Doctrine/Theology. One must start with the need for the Gospel; that is your doctrine of man. What is your understanding of the current condition of a lost/unregenerate man? Then one may move on to the means of addressing man’s need; that is your doctrine of salvation. And of course this will by necessity require a doctrine of God (and so forth). If you reject parts of Calvin’s theology that’s fine with me (I do not agree with Calvin on everything, after all he was just a man), but you must have Biblical Doctrine of you cannot have a Biblical Gospel.

So what is your Doctrine of the Gospel?

Grace Always,

Greg Alford said...

Anonymous,

Your comments are full of Godly Wisdom…

Thank You!

Anonymous said...

Greg,
Do you support the statement: "Calvinism IS the gospel"?

If I read correctly, you do.

How is this substantively different (albeit the opposing point) from what the old, angry and arminiam preachers are saying on the other-side?

A move toward them is a move away from the gospel, right?

You accuse them of being divisive. Say what you mean and accuse them of being "wrong," unless you will also accuse the Founders of being divisive when they say that all churches need to be reformed.

This disagreement has always been about theology and never about divisiveness.

Each side has been willing to be as divisive as the other.

You challenged me to find quote from Calvinists SBCers saying that a move toward Johnny Hunt is a move away from the gospel. I found several, including yours, who say essentially that and you can't admit to it, even when you do it in the blog I post the comment on.

You don't get it brother--I tend to agree with you about man-centric preaching being a bane in the North America church movement.

What I don't agree with is that you can't see past your Calvinism to see that the John 3:16 Conference looks a lot like the Founders from the outside looking in. They each are passionately answering the question about which pole the preaching of the gospel needs to gravitate toward.

Sincerely,

Shane Tucker

Anonymous said...

Greg has made an important observation distinguishing between the Calvinist, Anti-Calvinist and Non-Calvinist.

While serving as Adult Bible Teacher, in a Church in Pasagoula, Mississippi, I taught the Doctrines of Grace without using the terms.
The Pastor, the late Leroy Wright verbally attacked the term, Calvinism, but agreed with what I was teaching.
Sometimes the war is over terminology.

But where there is conflict against the teaching itself, those attacking it are doing the damage, not those who faithfully proclaim, ''Thus saith the Lord.''
Dr. Paul W. Foltz

Greg Alford said...

Shane,

My Brother, I have answered your question about three times now… I will try “One More Time”.

The Calvinists of the SBC have, for the past 20 years, been defending what they believe the Scriptures teach, and getting pretty much beat up for it. This is so well documented that I am sure that someone with your research skills can discover the truth of this statement.

The Anti-Calvinist of the SBC have, for the past 20 years, been attacking what the Calvinist of the SBC believe the Scriptures teach, and pretty much beating up the Calvinist of the SBC. This also is so well documented that I am sure you can discover the truth of this statement with just a little research.

Now, Concerning the John 3:16 Conference… I do not expect you as a non-Calvinist to understand this, but I see the John 3:16 Conference as an attack on my personal faith! In other words Shane, it is Personal, Very Personal.

Grace Always,

Greg Alford said...

Dr. Foltz,

Thanks for your kind words, observations, and wisdom.

Grace Always,