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Wednesday, February 06, 2008


For those who are not familiar with the now defunct Liberal Baptist Attack Web-Site Called “Baptist Fire” the title of this post might be wasted on you without a little explanation. In order to confront the half truths and outright lies that were being posted on this site anonymously Gene Bridges, Evan May, Timmy Brister, Dustin Segers, and Nathan White collaborated on a new site called "Strange Baptist Fire". It is in the same spirit that I write this post.

Reading the articles being posted over on “SBCOutpost” and having the unfortunate experience of reading those posted on Baptist Fire one gets a feeling of having seen all this before. While the target has shifted from Calvinist on the “Baptist Fire” web site to the leaders of the Conservative Resurgence on the “SBCOutpost” web site, and of course Paul, Todd, Ben and company all sign their names… the tactics of slash and burn are one and the same.

Ben Cole is obsessed with bringing down the President of South West Baptist Theological Seminary, Dr. Paige Patterson, and has posted an endless string of articles on “SBCOutpost” attacking Dr. Patterson. Ben’s cohorts the Littleton’s, Paul and Todd, have recently (since his nomination to become President of the SBC) began posting a string of negative articles on the President of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Dr. Albert Mohler.

In fact it is hard to find a single article on “SBCOutpost” that is not critical of someone connected to the Conservative Resurgence… and guess who their new friends just happen to be: The New Baptist Covenant. Read it for yourself.

So while I do not have a web site dedicated to refuting all this nonsense, if you would like to post a response to anything posted over on “SBCOutpost” you may do so here.

Greg Alford


WatchingHISstory said...

This question maybe off-topic but who was behind "Baptist Fire"? Does anyone know?

Charles Page

G. Alford said...


I do not believe anyone has owned up to that bit of work... If so I have not heard of it.


selahV said...

Greg, as R.G.Lee once said, "There's gonna be a payday someday".

G. Alford said...


I agree there will be a pay day someday for all this, I just don't think it will be a check they will enjoy cashing...

Don't get me wrong in this... these are men that I have agreed with on many occasions in the past. It is just blatantly clear that they are no longer just expressing concerns over the issues, and that they now have a well organized agenda... One might call it the “Counter Conservative Resurgence”.


WatchingHISstory said...


This little bit of insight came to me at work today.
I am somewhat new to this SBC faith and am involved with a terrific local church.
I was raised Pentecostal. Specificlly, I was raised a Wesleyan-holiness Pentecostal. It was a clasical Pentecostal denomination. (not neo nor charismatic)
About 40 years ago I was home for the weekend from college and our spineless pastor presented a woman for membership who had previously been refused by several pastors because of her immoral life with men outside of marriage.
He ask the congregation if anyone had any opposition for this woman joining the church and to my amazement my father stood to his feet and said she has been living with different men and he opposed her being a member. You could sense a collective sigh of relief by the congregation.
The pastor ask for a vote and the request was unamanously denied. She did not nor did she ever join the church.

That single isolated event influenced my life to be like him in boldness to speak up for what is right.

Last week i called him (he is 82) about that event and ask him if there was a specific scripture that guided him in that decision to stand. He said none that he could think of. 40 years later did he have a scripture and he said no.
He is a very quite and bashful person and has only a sixth grade education. He has worked his whole life in factories in simple jobs.
He and mom raised three kids to always put Christ first and Church has been our whole life.

I could never express my gratitude for my parent but especially my father's example.

However what I thought today is the fact that we were raised Pentecostal (I have since left the Pentecostal faith and am a 5-point Calvinist) Everyone knows we didn't know the Bible and lived by estatic influences! Dad didn't have scripture and verse but still did the right thing and always has. He is a perfect father!

Today I attend a SBC and one thing that scares me is their view of scripture they seem to worship Bible rather than Christ.
In 1963 they said, "thecriterion by which the Bible is to be intrepreted is Jesus Christ."

In 2000 they said, all Scripture is a testimony to Christ, who is Himself the focus of divine revelation.

As Pentecostals the Bible was central to our beliefs yet there was a strong dependence and expectation that the Holy spirit would assist us in following it's guidelines. We weren't regimented nor disciplined.

Now the SBC has a strong positional statement on Bible innerancy and insistence that it be the sole criterior for life.

You have to have a person with exegetical understanding to properly interpret scripture. Obviously your pastor with his seminary expertise is that person.

Now with that positional statement on Biblical innerancy the Church can get your tithe, love offerings, mission offerings, building fund money and expenditures for fat staff salaries. They can get the deed to your farm and when you die they get a good part of your inheritance. We are right back to the middle ages with indulgencies.

Soon the average church member will know nothing about the Bible and rely on the pastor for the correct interpretation. Everytime a common man stands to speak his mind someone will require the proper interpretation of scripture.
He'll sit back down, embarrassed because he doesn't know. He'll direct traffic into the parking lot or greet newcomers at the door and keep his views to himself.

Now maybe this is the reason Pentecostals cannot grow big churches (with exception of charismatic prosperity preaching ministers) Maybe this is the reason that Wesleyan-holiness churches remain small. There are still people like my dad who will stand up and speak their mind in these churches. Ministers can't fleece them with exegetical expositions.

When Christ said he will build his church he meant HE would not men.

Anyway I intend to stand up without a seminary degree and speak my mind and insist on being heard. The Holy Spiritwill help me in that endeavor.

Charles Page

G. Alford said...


Thanks for sharing about your father. I think that many men today forget what a tremendous impact (for good or bad) a father has upon his son... I am thankful that your dad was a man of convictions and that he passed that along to his son :-)

Charles, it does not take a seminary degree to read the Bible and accept what we read as God's finial authority in our lives... some of the greatest men of Baptist History never went to seminary – take Charles Spurgeon for example. So your father is in very good company!

Charles, I hear your words and even greater I hear your heart... we do always need to be careful that we do not by any means take the Word of God out of the hands of the People of God. I do not think the problem is that we have too many pastors attending seminary today, but that for the last 100 years we (Baptist) have greatly neglected the teaching of the Word of God in our Churches. Sadly, the results are that today in our churches the vast majority of our people are “Theologically Illiterate”, so much so that what you say about the pastors with seminary expertise being the only ones with exegetical understanding is in many cases true. This is not to the shame of the Pastor, but to the same of the Church. And our Churches should thank God that he has in his grace sent a faithful pastor to guide them (through faithfully teaching the Word) into a greater understanding of his truth. The faithful Pastor has absolutely nothing of his own to say, his only purpose is to open the Word of God and let it do the teaching. That is the role of a faithful Pastor.

Charles, I know that you have a “High View of” (Deep Respect for) the Scriptures... I do not believe one can come to the convictions of a “Five Point Calvinist” without this... So I know that you believe that the Word of God alone is our finial authority in all matters of faith and life. No Calvinist I know would willingly submit to a human authority over the Bible... so if that means that some people accuse you and I of worshiping the Bible then let them... for so persecuted they the prophets of old.

Grace Always,

WatchingHISstory said...

Thanks for your kind response to my post.
Perhaps I can use you for a sounding board for my views, since there are few that I can discuss "Calvinism" with.

Though raised a Wesleyan I heard a preacher on radio in my small town of middle Tenn and he used the term sinners saved by grace (perhaps he was 'hardshell' Baptist) About 10-12 yo I clung to that phrase and qwhen I heard sermons in my church about saints and sanctification and holiness and that we were not sinners but saints saved by grace. My young mind embraces sinner saved by grace. I heard a voice in my heart contradict the preaching I was hearing.

So I was a Calvinist before I knew what Calvinism was! I was saved at age ten and baptized (trinitarian) at youth camp in Chatanooga, Tennessee.

I was drafted into thwe army in 66 and was stationed in Dachau Germany for two years.

After that I went to denominational Christian college on the GI bill and struggled thru to a BA in biblical ed with a minor in missions to keep from taking greek or hebrew! I knew that I could not master those courses. I was active in 3evangelism and traveled the states with youth groups for "invasions" went to Mexico for a month and Europe for a month.

I entered the ministry and went to Ohio for a year and then my wife and I went to Turkey to pastor a Christian Servicemen's Center at Adana, Turkey, working with the servicemen at Incirlik AB. We were there unofficially and the Lord guarded our ignorance for five wonderful years and our first daughtwr was born there.

Adana was about 30 miles from Tarsus and so I dug deep into understanding the reformed views of Romans,occasionally going to Tarsus to contemplate Pauls' life.
Antioch was a little futher down the road and we went there often.
There I contemplated Barnabas and Paul's lives.

Can you imagine being a Pentecostal preacher with Calvinist views? We stayed for 13 years in Europe and enjoyed it greatly!

Anyway, making a short story long I am a 5 point Calvinist gave up being a Pentecostal preacher and now work at Fed Ex in Memphis, TN
My ministry is the largest hub tranfer of freight, probaly in the world. It is a 'hostile' environment and the Holy Spirit has opened up doors of opportunity
to share my faith!

I am a non-cessationist Calvinist which means I am totally dependent on the Holy Spirit from beginning to end. Since Calvinist are contradictory as all scholars are
I want to err on the side of sovereignty rather than human responsibility. I do not allow the hyper in calvinism scare me nor intimidate me.

I am a glad witness unto Christ to everyone. I do not give a call nor do I expect a response.I believe that there are more elected to salvation than Artminians believe will obey their call. They are negative as to the world's response. I believe the HS's effectual call is liberal, generous and effective! It is irrestible.

I believe in the Written Word and the Living Word. John 1:1
The Living Word comes into our hearts by regeneration and the Holy Spirit indwells the believer. He baptizes the sinner into Christ' body. Apart from conversion Christ bestows His baptism for power for service and we have the infilling.

The Written Word defines everything the Holy Spirit does.

Gotta go to work. Your comments


G. Alford said...


I have been a little busy lately, so I have not had time to check my blog much in the last few days...

Anyway my Brother, I just hope that when I am your age that I have been as faithful as you have been in serving the Lord and following his call no matter where that call may be to go.

Interestingly I am finding more and more Pentecostal Brothers are finding the Doctrines of Grace... It would appear that God is calling faithful men from all denominational backgrounds to the truth.

You said "The Written Word defines everything the Holy Spirit does." All I need to say to that is AMEN!

Grace Always,

Anonymous said...

watchinghisstory, I hold to the 5 doctrines of grace. I also am very much aware that These doctrines, unaided by the Holy Spirit will accomplish nothing. Oh how we need Him, to come, and to freshly anoint The Word as it goes forth.

PaulW. Foltz DD