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Tuesday, June 10, 2008

Anti-Calvinist Elected SBC President!

One of the most vocal Anti-Calvinist the SBC has to offer has been elected President with 52% of the vote on the first ballot…

Ted Traylor, pastor of Olive Baptist Church in Pensacola, Fla., who nominated Johnny Hunt, says “Hunt will unite the convention and forge a hopeful future”… What world has Ted Traylor been living in?

If by “uniting the convention” Traylor means that the election of a full blown Anti-Calvinist and further alienating the Young Reformed Generation that is abandoning the SBC in droves those who are left will be more united, then he is probably right.

I will hold off commenting more on this until I have time to digest fully what this will mean for the Reformed movement in the SBC… But this I know “It is a very dark day in the SBC for the Reformed Movement!”… as I seriously doubt a single Calvinist will be nominated to serve on any BOT by Johnny Hunt over the next two years.

Grace Always,

21 comments:

LarryEuphonium said...

I am happy to see my pastor, Johnny Hunt elected president of the convention. And yes he will emphasize the Great Comission.

Dr. Larry Flegle
Woodstock, Georgia

tguthrie@eklundstewardship.com said...

I too am happy to see Dr, Hunt elected. His passion for souls and his humble spirit will be motivating to each of us. Pray for him and thank God for him - do not knock him nor presuppose on him until you see how God will use him.

Just a few thoughts!

G. Alford said...

larryeuphonium,

Well... What?

Who said anything about not emphasizing the Great Commission?

You just proved my point about the kind of PREJUDICE we can expect to receive... you hear the word Calvinist and you automatically think they do not support the Great Commission...

How silly of me to be concerned.

G. Alford said...

Tim,

"Presupose"... Who Me?

I think a mans past record is a very good indication of what his future conduct is likely to be... But that's just me and perhaps I am still jittery from the last time I was hit over the head with the Anti-Calvinist Club?

Anonymous said...

it'd time for all calvinistts to band together and form a new convention. it is beyond salvation. come out and be ye separate, and touch not the unclean thing.

Paul W. Foltz DD

Bill Poore said...

Dr.Flegle,
As far as I can remember,all presidents of the SBC have emphasized the Great Commission.
Bill

Anonymous said...

I have had the experience of going to one of Dr. Hunt's Timothy/Barnabas conferences. His passion to see the lost come to Christ is obvious. I will not even attempt to say it is not.

The issue that I have is the obvious pragmatic methodology that comes along when a person believes they can woo someone into "making a decision to ask Jesus into their heart." (Just typing that made we want to puke.)In my mind this is the real issue of Calvinism vs. Arminianism.
As a Calvinist I really don't care if Dr. Hunt is a Calvinist or not. I do care when that system leads ministers to believe that if they can just sell the package it will result in a person making a choice to believe. It is not the faulty theology that concerns me as much as the faulty methodology that follows. From what I can tell, the vast majority of Calvinist are throughing the flag on the gimmicks and schemes that have completely taken over the convention.
I personally do not think Dr. Hunt will do a bad job, but surely do not see him as being someone who will bring the convention out of the rut it has fallen into. It just seems like a new face, with the same old tired ideas to me. I sincerely hope I am wrong.

Anonymous said...

Brothers, I know the comments I am about to make really do not have a lot to do with this post, but it was my reflection on the Timothy/Barnabas conference and my last comments that provoked the thought. In that conference Dr. Hunt made some comments to the effect that we need to make our churches more relevant, change the way we are doing things. It is not a direct quote, but the overall point of what I believe him to be saying. This falls directly in line with much of the church growth literature available that says, “The way we have been doing church is not working any longer, and we must change.”
The thought that came to mind as I reflect on this is, “We stopped doing things the way things had always been done years ago, and that is exactly why we are in the shape we are in.” I think anyone familiar with church history would have to recognize that the types of sermons and gospel being preached today is a far cry from that of Calvin, Spurgeon, Edwards, Whitfield, and yes even Wesley. These men opened the Bible and preached, God moved, and men were radically saved. They preached with authority and conviction. I also believe they preached with something even I admit to not always having, an eternal perspective. In my understanding, and correct me if I am wrong, it was the fluff and pragmatism that began to creep into the church by the likes of Finney and others that has led to church as we know it.
Here is my thought. If we consider only the last 50-100 years of church history to be the way “things have always been done”, then I agree we need to change to something new. But… If we consider the whole of church history I would say, “The New thing did not work, we need to go back to Coke Classic.”
On a beach not in Jacksonville….

G. Alford said...

Anonymous,

You said “As a Calvinist I really don't care if Dr. Hunt is a Calvinist or not. I do care when that system leads ministers to believe that if they can just sell the package it will result in a person making a choice to believe.”

Very well put...

It is this whole marketing of the Gospel that I am deeply concerned about... and from what I see First Baptist Church Woodstock Ga. Has become to many the Super Wall-Mart of the SBC. Johnny Hunt has connected with a lot of young pastors through his Timothy/Barnabas conferences, but what have they learned from his example?

At the risk of being unkind (but there is really no other way to say this) it is very hard to distinguish in these Mega Church Pastors between a passion for souls and a passion for success. It is far easier to see someones passion who has given their lives up to be missionaries in the jungles of Africa and know that it is truly a passion for souls, than it is to see a “tanned, cap toothed, rested, and ready” Mega Church Pastors passion and know what truly motivates him.

G. Alford said...

Anonymous,

“The way we have been doing church is not working any longer, and we must change.”

“The New thing did not work, we need to go back to Coke Classic.”

Amen!

We need to stop entertaining the Goats and go back to feeding the Sheep...

Anonymous said...

Greg,

I recently heard someone say, Sheep like sheep food, give them some sheep food (the Bible), and they will come.

Goats like goat food, which is ANYTHING. Entertain them and they will come.

How's that for a new church growth strategy???

Maybe you can write a book titled, "The Breakfast of Champions: Sheep Food". What do you think?

On a beach other than Jacksonville

G. Alford said...

On a beach...,

First you coin the phrase “Jacksonville is not the only beach in Florida” and now you give me my first book title "The Breakfast of Champions: Sheep Food".

What do I think? I think you and I need to have a serious discussion about a future contract, perhaps to even co-author that book…

Anonymous said...

Greg,

I will have my people contact your people. That way I can maintain my anonymity.

On a beach

G. Alford said...

And to think I was going to offer to buy your lunch next week when I am over your way :-)

G. Alford said...

Dr. Foltz,

You said “it'd time for all calvinistts to band together and form a new convention.”

I think you express the “Unspoken” desire of many, many, Calvinist in the State of Florida... I actually think that having only one Baptist Convention in any state is a bad idea... it would be like saying that we can only have one Baptist Church in any City/Town/Community.

How do you think all those who are apposed to the idea of a new convention in the state of Florida would feel if they were suddenly told, Ok we are only going to recognize The First Baptist Church of each City and all you other churches are going to have join First Baptist Church in order to remain in the SBC.

The current business model of allowing, for the most part, only one convention per state is just as restrictive to future growth as allowing only one Baptist Church per city... and of course the only reason for such a policy is control.

Which brings me to my next point... it is not this desire for control that is actually restricting the growth of the convention and according to the latest statistics actually shrinking the convention? And in this case is this not actually an Anti-Great-Commission Policy?

A few years ago the Alabama Baptist Convention had a slogan; “Start Something New!”... It was intended to encourage growth by encouraging new church plants. Why would the Alabama Baptist Convention wish to start new churches? Because everyone knows that new churches grow much faster than existing churches. Therefore “Start Something New!” is a Great Commission slogan... and those who oppose the starting of new state conventions are actually more interested in control than the Great Commission.

But where to start? How does one actually go about starting a new State Convention? I am ready... but I am probably not the one who can rally the troops for such a great undertaking as this... Has God given anyone else in the State of Florida such a desire? Will God raise up men in the State of Florida to meet this challenge?

I honestly do not know... “nevertheless Father thy will be done”.

Greg

Paul W. Foltz DD said...

When God Called Moses he replied, ''Who, me/''
Since you are a Pastor of a SBC Church, and desire to see it come to pass,why not you/

I have never been a Southern Baptist, and so would lachk credibility even among like-minded Sovereign Grace Brethren, in the SBC.

Paul

Paul W. Foltz DD said...

Greg, I said form a fellowship, not a convention, with the pastors and elders of each local church, vote, set the policies etc.

If Dr Al Mohler would lead southern Seminary out of the convention, all the Calvinist churches could rally around that, forming a fellowship, the present founders movement could join it, and we would be on our way.
Dr. Paul W. Foltz

G. Alford said...

Paul,

I do not think that there is "any chance" of Dr. Mohler leading Southern Seminary out of the SBC.

1st - The SBC actually ownes the Seminaries.

2nd – Dr. Mohlor continues to be a tremendous positive influence for the reformed movement in the SBC… so he is unlikely to go anywhere.

Brother Paul, I think we need to start a little closer to home with a local fellowship first, then perhaps a regional or state fellowship… and if God blesses, in time, a national fellowship.

Grace Always,

Paul W. Foltz DD said...

Brother Greg,
I think you are right. one has to crawl before he can walk, and walk before he can run. Your wisdom here tells me you are the one to initiate it. And who knows, if God blesses, Dr Mohler and his faculty may leave the Convention and come over, and start a seminary for us. There are several independent Calvinistic Bible Colleges.We need to include in our local fellowship all baptists believing in the Doctrines of Grace [Independent as well as SBC].
Yours By His Grace
Paul

Shane Fernandez said...

Gentlemen,

I believe God has placed an intense desire on my heart to see the Gospel proclaimed in the Pensacola area. I grew up in the area while my folks attended Liberty Bible College. Sense then I have moved away with my family to Virginia and have been involved with a Sovereign Grace Ministries Church for about 10yrs.
The doctrine of election is a wonderful truth that I believe has been demonized by the American culture, and many do not understand what God's word teaches on this great doctrine. There is absolutely nothing we can add to the work of Christ. HE has done it and there is nothing I can add to this great gospel. "In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins". (1Jn 4:10 ESV)
How could we choose him unless He initiated the relationship? Election does not demote the great commission but promotes it. I desire to be apart of the good work of pointing others to the Savior. What a gift that we can see God at work drawing men to Himself as they run head long to an eternal torment. I know this work because I too have been saved from this terrible future. If God did not choose me I know for certain I would not have believed in Him. Isn't it amazing that God commissioned this perfect plan to save a people for His Glory so that none could boast. What a Glorious Gospel and what a Savior!

As I was saying in the beginning God has placed an intense desire in my heart, as well as my families', for the Pensacola area. If it is the Lord's Sovereign will. I would love to plant a Church in Pensacola, Fl, to proclaim the truths of the Gospel of Christ. I love to read of Spurgeon when he was still a young man preaching the gospel, with his grandfather behind him cheering him on saying, "Tell them again, Charlie. Tell them that same story again" I love that story (the Gospel), and by God's grace I know I will continue to love that story.

I leave you gentlemen with this - Romans 10 has Election written all over it.

Shane Fernandez

Anonymous said...

very interesting stuff gentlemen, but i have a question, does anyone know of any hispanic reformed churches anywhere? im from st.cloud florida by the way.